UX Pathways – Episode 4 : Molly E. Holzschlag

This episode of UX Pathways features an in-depth conversation with Molly Holschlag, a seasoned professional in web development, user experience (UX), and accessibility. Molly shares her unique career trajectory, insights into the evolution of the web and UX, and her current focus on redefining web accessibility.

Career Background and Industry Evolution

Molly began her career relatively late in technology, around age 28-30, with a background in technical communications, writing, and media studies.
She was part of an early fully electronic master’s degree program at the New School for Social Research, utilizing a BBS system before the web became mainstream.
Molly describes herself as coming from a semantic, linguistic, and content-driven perspective rather than a traditional UX or design viewpoint.
She highlights the generational shift in career mobility, noting that prior generations stayed in single industries for decades, whereas today’s professionals wear multiple hats and shift roles frequently.
Molly explains how the web has shifted from a semantic web focused on content to an application-driven ecosystem, which she believes has complicated user experience and accessibility.

Current Role and Project

Molly is currently working on her 36th book, titled Included: Redefining Accessibility for the World Wide Web, expected within six months from the interview date.
This book aims to reframe accessibility as a foundational element of web design, rather than an afterthought or add-on.
She advocates for an “accessibility first” approach, emphasizing that if users cannot access content, no user experience can occur.

Key Industry Observations

The web has evolved through phases often labeled Web 1.0, Web 2.0, and possibly Web 3.0, but Molly critiques this versioning as oversimplified and distracting from the real issues.
She warns that the industry is at a crossroads between building websites and building applications, which are fundamentally different.
Molly notes a shift away from semantic, accessible content toward complex user interfaces overloaded with features, pop-ups, and cookie consent barriers that create friction for users, especially those with disabilities.
There is increasing use of automation and machine-based testing in UX, but Molly stresses the irreplaceable value of real user testing and feedback to truly understand user needs.

Accessibility and User Experience

Accessibility is often subsumed under UX, but Molly argues it should come before UX because without access, there is no experience.
She highlights the social and systemic challenges in integrating accessibility, including cost concerns, lack of education, and fragmented industry standards.
Molly points out that many current UX professionals lack fundamental accessibility knowledge, which perpetuates poor practices and user exclusion.

Education and Industry Challenges

There is a lack of cohesive, universal education and standards for UX and accessibility, leading to information overload and inconsistent knowledge.
Molly urges newcomers to find and learn from industry elders, original thinkers, and advocates.
She emphasizes that usability is a quality assurance process requiring ongoing iteration and must start from day one in project workflows.
Molly believes the industry needs long-term, adaptable education models beyond traditional degrees and certifications to properly prepare professionals.
She criticizes the slow pace of educational institutions in adapting curricula to the fast-evolving web technologies and user needs.

Advice for Newcomers

Emphasize learning about accessibility, markup languages, and usability alongside broader UX skills.
Engage in continuous user testing and iteration rather than relying solely on automated tools.
Seek mentorship and guidance from experienced professionals to navigate the complex, siloed UX landscape.

Key Insights

Accessibility first is a critical paradigm shift necessary for a truly inclusive web.
The web is increasingly application-driven, moving away from its original semantic content roots.
Real user feedback is indispensable; automation cannot replace human-centered evaluation.
The UX industry suffers from fragmentation, insufficient education, and lack of unified standards.
Continuous iteration and quality assurance are foundational to good usability.

Transcript

Marc: Welcome to another episode of UX Pathways. I have the honor of being joined today by Molly Holzschlag. Molly, how are you?

Molly: I’m doing well. How about yourself, Marc?

Marc: Really good. Excited to have you on the podcast. We’ve been interviewing people about their journeys into this industry. Before we get into your background, what is your current role? You’ve done so many things in your career.

Molly’s Current Focus

Molly: I have, and I’ve been fortunate. It reflects the generation that created the web. Before the web, people generally stayed in one job or industry for their entire careers. But our generation became more mobile, wearing different hats across design, development, user experience, user engineering, and accessibility.

A few years ago, I became very ill and semi-retired. I try to stay involved—keeping up with specs, recommendations, practices. I had considered pursuing a PhD to build a new kind of higher-education curriculum for web development, UX, accessibility, and design—something adaptive, evolutionary, and not stuck in outdated academic structures.

When I returned to LinkedIn to connect with people in education, one of my former publishers reached out and said, “If you want to do that kind of work, you could write a book for us.” That was more realistic than a six-to-eight-year PhD commitment.

So I drafted some ideas, and now I’m writing my 36th book, titled Included: Redefining Accessibility for the World Wide Web, published by John Wiley & Sons. It should be out within six months. That’s my current focus.

How Molly Entered the Profession

Marc: That’s exciting. So how did you actually get started in this profession?

Molly: I’m an elder. When a friend tells me they got their first cellphone at 18, I laugh—there was no such thing as a cellphone when I was 18.

I didn’t come to computers until I was around 28–30. Before that, my background was in:

Technical communication
Writing
Media studies

When I went to The New School for Social Research for my master’s program in New York, they were running a pilot online program through a BBS called “Connected ED.” So I earned one of the very first fully electronic master’s degrees—at a respected institution, no less. It was a feeder school for the MIT Media Lab at the time.

This was before the web. When the web emerged around 1993, I first saw it through Lynx, a text-based browser. It was raw and exciting. There was no UX except: if you could use a computer and a modem, you could use the web. It was that simple.

My interest wasn’t in UX or design originally—it was in meaning:

Semantics
Language
Content
How media shapes society

The New School emphasized the social ramifications of technology, and that shaped everything for me. When the web and my media studies collided, I realized the potential immediately.

But today, 30 years later, I think the industry has created a bit of a mess.

What’s Happened to the Web

Molly: We moved away from the semantic web and instead started building applications on top of web technologies that weren’t designed for that purpose.

User experience is now in a vague, confusing place because:

We’ve blurred the distinction between web pages and applications
We’ve prioritized UI containers over meaningful content
We’ve embraced automation while abandoning real user testing
We’re allowing machines to pretend to be humans during testing

As I’ve aged, I find it harder and harder to use much of the modern web. That’s heartbreaking, because in 1993 the web was the most empowering thing in my life. Today it often feels hostile.

A huge part of this is accessibility.

The Real Accessibility Crisis

Molly: Accessibility keeps getting lumped “under UX,” but I believe it belongs before UX.

If a person cannot access something, they cannot have a user experience. Full stop.

Accessibility must be the on-ramp to the World Wide Web. But instead, we treat it as an afterthought:

“We’ll add it later.”
“It costs too much.”
“We’ll automate it.”

And then we wonder why the web is excluding millions of people.

Social attitudes around accessibility are shifting, which is good. But in many ways, it may be too little, too late. We left too many people behind after inviting them in.

Has UX Actually Improved Things?

Molly: Honestly—has user experience truly improved because of all our technical advances?

Marc: Hard question. Being in it, it’s hard to see clearly. But that’s why user testing is so essential.

Molly: Exactly. Without unbiased user feedback, we’re designing in a bubble.

Look at something as simple as a cookie-consent popup:

The page loads
A giant popup appears
You must accept or configure cookies
Then the page reloads
Then a chat widget pops up
Ads start flashing

For anyone with visual, auditory, cognitive, or mobility challenges, these layers of barriers are exhausting. Even a broken arm is enough to make today’s web nearly unusable.

Sociologically speaking, too many choices overwhelm people. They freeze or default to whatever is familiar—not what is best.

Meanwhile, our industry has splintered into so many specialties that we’ve stopped talking to each other. COVID made it worse. There’s no unified movement—no Web Standards Project, and the W3C struggles with resources.

People entering the field don’t know where to go for reliable guidance.

Advice for People Entering the Industry

Marc: That’s exactly what I wanted to ask. With everything we’ve discussed—what advice would you give someone trying to break into this industry?

Molly: My advice is:

1. Find your elders and hang onto them.

Seek out the original thinkers—the people who shaped the early web. Listen to them. Learn the context.

2. Learn deeply across disciplines.

If you’re pursuing UX, you must learn:

Accessibility
Semantic HTML and markup
The structure of the web itself
Usability as a quality assurance process, not just interface design

3. Understand that UX is enormous.

UX/UI is not one job. It is a vast ecosystem with:

Specialties
Silos
Overlapping disciplines
Deep technical and human factors

This means it may require more education and training, not less.

4. We need real, long-term education—not just certifications.

I don’t mean degrees necessarily. I mean a unified, rigorous learning path that teaches what people are not getting from bootcamps or scattered online courses.

I once met a young woman leading accessibility at a major corporation who asked me:

“When should I use alt text for blind users?”

We’ve been discussing alt text for 30 years. How did she get hired into that role without knowing this?
Because the education system is broken.

5. Recommit to users—every single day.

We must:

Challenge our biases
Stop relying solely on heuristics
Ask users how they experience design
Ask again
And again
And again

Human-centered design is iterative forever—not just in a project cycle.

Marc: I completely agree. I wish you the best with your new book—I can’t wait to read it. It’s been a pleasure catching up.

Molly: Thank you. Just to clarify, this is a thought book, not a how-to. There are plenty of tutorials out there. This is about changing how we think—especially about where accessibility belongs.

Accessibility is not something tucked under UX. It comes before everything. If someone can’t access an experience, they can’t use it. That’s the mantra: Accessibility First.

Thank you for inviting me, Marc. I look forward to hearing what others have to say.

Marc: Thank you, Molly.

[Music]